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 Post subject: At last, Microsoft may have to stop ripping off its customers
PostPosted: 25 Nov 2009 - 4:59 pm 
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Microsoft Accused of Xbox 360 Accessory Monopoly in Datel Lawsuit

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/61367

I hope Datel win (whoever they are), I wouldn't mind so much if the official stuff wasn't ridiculously priced.


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 Post subject: Re: At last, Microsoft may have to stop ripping off its customers
PostPosted: 25 Nov 2009 - 6:39 pm 
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Im sure MS will Lose.. its been some time since some court of law in the world somewhere made a big chunk of cash off them...

I agree its over the top what they have done.. but meh.. doesnt effect me..

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 Post subject: Re: At last, Microsoft may have to stop ripping off its customers
PostPosted: 26 Nov 2009 - 2:48 am 
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It's microsoft's console, so they can do whatever they like in regards to unauthorised peripherals. That's in the terms and conditions. This situation would never happen If it were any other company (eg, the beloved Nintendo, or Apple). It's just that people love to hate microsoft.

I don't really care either to be honest. Microsoft prices are reasonable for peripherals - same as Sony, cheaper than Nintendo.


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 Post subject: Re: At last, Microsoft may have to stop ripping off its customers
PostPosted: 27 Nov 2009 - 6:40 pm 
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Lung wrote:
It's microsoft's console, so they can do whatever they like in regards to unauthorised peripherals. That's in the terms and conditions. This situation would never happen If it were any other company (eg, the beloved Nintendo, or Apple). It's just that people love to hate microsoft.

I don't really care either to be honest. Microsoft prices are reasonable for peripherals - same as Sony, cheaper than Nintendo.


Can't speak for where you are from but in the UK they certainly aren't reasonable, I can't think of any other devices currently that restrict you to only offical peripherals so I don't think its that people "hate microsoft" its more that the company made memory cards and then microsoft blocked them with an update. I'm sure the same thing would happen to Apple if they released a firmware update that blocked all unofficial headphones.

I hope Microsoft don't win or who knows how many electronics in the future will only work with official stuff, if Detal win then it's just good news for the consumer frankly.


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 Post subject: Re: At last, Microsoft may have to stop ripping off its customers
PostPosted: 27 Nov 2009 - 7:10 pm 
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Oh come on, it's been happening for years now, Sony, Apple, Nintendo etc have been doing this, they price their own stuff higher.

I agree, MS's Officail peripherals are expensive, but as Lung said, they own the console, I would say all companies peripherals are expensive for what they are.


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 Post subject: Re: At last, Microsoft may have to stop ripping off its customers
PostPosted: 27 Nov 2009 - 7:21 pm 
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It's not about price you noob, its about making non-official stuff incompatible.

They can charge £39053405934509 for a memory card for all I care, as long as they don't stop unofficial ones you can buy for a tenner from working. Don't understand why consumers would want any company to defend against this kind of case. :?


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 Post subject: Re: At last, Microsoft may have to stop ripping off its customers
PostPosted: 27 Nov 2009 - 10:12 pm 
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Can I just point out that most of the unofficial stuff STILL works? The only stuff MS has banned are the items that allow saving on a different device, specific example being the memory cards that allowed saving on a micro SD cards. The ones that don't allow this are still fine. MS have banned these specifically due to the security flaws they introduce into the system, for example what happened with the Gears 2 exploit a month ago.

Can't see anything wrong with what MS have done, they've taken reasonable steps to keep their service secure.

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 Post subject: Re: At last, Microsoft may have to stop ripping off its customers
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2009 - 3:40 am 
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Maverick wrote:
Lung wrote:
It's microsoft's console, so they can do whatever they like in regards to unauthorised peripherals. That's in the terms and conditions. This situation would never happen If it were any other company (eg, the beloved Nintendo, or Apple). It's just that people love to hate microsoft.

I don't really care either to be honest. Microsoft prices are reasonable for peripherals - same as Sony, cheaper than Nintendo.


Can't speak for where you are from but in the UK they certainly aren't reasonable, I can't think of any other devices currently that restrict you to only offical peripherals so I don't think its that people "hate microsoft" its more that the company made memory cards and then microsoft blocked them with an update. I'm sure the same thing would happen to Apple if they released a firmware update that blocked all unofficial headphones.

I hope Microsoft don't win or who knows how many electronics in the future will only work with official stuff, if Detal win then it's just good news for the consumer frankly.

Yeah I agree it's a pain in the arse, but it's been happening with phones Nokia, Sony etc in that you could only use THEIR special headphones etc. It's been happening since the beginning of time. If MS lose, then it would only be fair to then force all other companies to comply with the same 'law' whatever that law may be (the guy has no law backing him, but hey the international courts are corrupt and don't have to site a law in their rulings). That fiasco with Microsoft having to split in half because of anti-competition with firefox/netscape was BS as it was ONLY aimed at microsoft and not EVERY OTHER COMPANY in the world that does the same thing.

I suspect that this lawsuit will end with microsoft also. Every other supplier that does the same thing will remain untouched. So, not a huge benefit for the community.


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 Post subject: Re: At last, Microsoft may have to stop ripping off its customers
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2009 - 1:05 pm 
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Maverick wrote:
I hope Datel win (whoever they are), I wouldn't mind so much if the official stuff wasn't ridiculously priced.


Oh really? Maverick?

Not about price hey?


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 Post subject: Re: At last, Microsoft may have to stop ripping off its customers
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2009 - 4:16 pm 
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Lung wrote:
Yeah I agree it's a pain in the arse, but it's been happening with phones Nokia, Sony etc in that you could only use THEIR special headphones etc. It's been happening since the beginning of time. If MS lose, then it would only be fair to then force all other companies to comply with the same 'law' whatever that law may be (the guy has no law backing him, but hey the international courts are corrupt and don't have to site a law in their rulings). That fiasco with Microsoft having to split in half because of anti-competition with firefox/netscape was BS as it was ONLY aimed at microsoft and not EVERY OTHER COMPANY in the world that does the same thing.

I suspect that this lawsuit will end with microsoft also. Every other supplier that does the same thing will remain untouched. So, not a huge benefit for the community.


Nah it's different with the phones because that is the connector, you can easily get adaptors for it and there are plenty of third party headphones that work with them. These memory cards worked on 360 but then were blocked with an update, it would be like Dell bringing out an update to block my logitech mouse to force me to buy a Dell one for my Dell PC... there's just no need for it.

Geoff900 wrote:
Maverick wrote:
I hope Datel win (whoever they are), I wouldn't mind so much if the official stuff wasn't ridiculously priced.


Oh really? Maverick?

Not about price hey?


The court case isn't about the price you freak, but the reason I am supporting Detal is because the official stuff is so pricey... cheaper third party HDDs and wireless adaptors? Yes please. What is so hard to understand? Surely people should be in support of this.


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 Post subject: Re: At last, Microsoft may have to stop ripping off its customers
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2009 - 8:20 pm 
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Maverick wrote:
Lung wrote:
Yeah I agree it's a pain in the arse, but it's been happening with phones Nokia, Sony etc in that you could only use THEIR special headphones etc. It's been happening since the beginning of time. If MS lose, then it would only be fair to then force all other companies to comply with the same 'law' whatever that law may be (the guy has no law backing him, but hey the international courts are corrupt and don't have to site a law in their rulings). That fiasco with Microsoft having to split in half because of anti-competition with firefox/netscape was BS as it was ONLY aimed at microsoft and not EVERY OTHER COMPANY in the world that does the same thing.

I suspect that this lawsuit will end with microsoft also. Every other supplier that does the same thing will remain untouched. So, not a huge benefit for the community.


Nah it's different with the phones because that is the connector, you can easily get adaptors for it and there are plenty of third party headphones that work with them. These memory cards worked on 360 but then were blocked with an update, it would be like Dell bringing out an update to block my logitech mouse to force me to buy a Dell one for my Dell PC... there's just no need for it.

Geoff900 wrote:
Maverick wrote:
I hope Datel win (whoever they are), I wouldn't mind so much if the official stuff wasn't ridiculously priced.


Oh really? Maverick?

Not about price hey?


The court case isn't about the price you freak, but the reason I am supporting Detal is because the official stuff is so pricey... cheaper third party HDDs and wireless adaptors? Yes please. What is so hard to understand? Surely people should be in support of this.


Ok, name me anything unoffical which is half as decent as the offical stuff...

And the point I was making, you complete and utter twat, is it's MS's console, they can do what they like.

They have a monoply on it, if you don't like get then go somewhere else, nothing you or anyone else can do about it, yes their offical peripherals are expensive, and until the idots who keep on buying the offical stuff stop buying it nothing will change.

Datel, don't have a leg to stand on, because allot of companies do this, Sony, Apple, Nintendo, Nokia etc they use their own connectors.

Apple have been locking out other MP3 players out on the market, from using their itunes lately.

It's their property, hardware and software.


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 Post subject: Re: At last, Microsoft may have to stop ripping off its customers
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2009 - 12:49 am 
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Official accessories are always, without a single exception, better than the 3rd party alternatives.

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 Post subject: Re: At last, Microsoft may have to stop ripping off its customer
PostPosted: 01 Dec 2009 - 10:10 pm 
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Geoff, you're a complete freak, let me go through your post bit by bit to explain why.

Geoff900 wrote:
Ok, name me anything unoffical which is half as decent as the offical stuff...

No one said anything about quality. Completely irrelevant, I've not used a detal memory card but I'm sure it's not bad compared to the official one, but if you really want an example (god knows why) then HDMI leads.

Geoff900 wrote:
And the point I was making, you complete and utter twat, is it's MS's console, they can do what they like.

And it's Detal's memory card, customers of both Microsoft and Detal are getting fucked over by Microsoft's update, why would you ever support this?

Geoff900 wrote:
They have a monoply on it, if you don't like get then go somewhere else, nothing you or anyone else can do about it, yes their offical peripherals are expensive, and until the idots who keep on buying the offical stuff stop buying it nothing will change.

And how the fuck are the "idiots" who want memory cards and hard drives supposed to do that if Microsoft block unofficial stuff from working? Jesus Christ what a stupid thing to say.

Geoff900 wrote:
Datel, don't have a leg to stand on, because allot of companies do this, Sony, Apple, Nintendo, Nokia etc they use their own connectors.

When? When has a product that works with these products then been made incompatible?


Meh, I hope Detal win even if nobody else does so the next xbox has more third party stuff available, if Microsoft win then they'll probably engineer all their future consoles to only recognise official peripherals period, don't come crying on here when an extra controller costs you £50.


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 Post subject: Re: At last, Microsoft may have to stop ripping off its customer
PostPosted: 09 Dec 2009 - 11:30 pm 
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Maverick wrote:
Geoff, you're a complete freak, let me go through your post bit by bit to explain why.

Geoff900 wrote:
Ok, name me anything unofficial which is half as decent as the official stuff...

No one said anything about quality. Completely irrelevant, I've not used a detal memory card but I'm sure it's not bad compared to the official one, but if you really want an example (god knows why) then HDMI leads.

Yes quality is relevant, why pay for some cheap shitty controllers, when you can buy decent ones which will last.

HDMI, is the only good thing which isn't official, every I know, even people on here have admitted that the Official cables are better than 3rd party ones, this holds true with 99% of 3rd party hardware, most of the unofficial hardware is shite

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And the point I was making, you complete and utter twat, is it's MS's console, they can do what they like.

And it's Detal's memory card, customers of both Microsoft and Detal are getting fucked over by Microsoft's update, why would you ever support this?


Again you missed the point, if you don't like the price of something, you shouldn't buy it, I personally don't like the prices MS charge for HD's for instance, therefore I won't buy one until the prices come down.

People, keep buying the official ones, therefore MS keep the prices up.

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They have a monopoly on it, if you don't like get then go somewhere else, nothing you or anyone else can do about it, yes their official peripherals are expensive, and until the idiots who keep on buying the official stuff stop buying it nothing will change.

And how the fuck are the "idiots" who want memory cards and hard drives supposed to do that if Microsoft block unofficial stuff from working? Jesus Christ what a stupid thing to say.


MS own the consoles software and hardware, they are allowed to block any third pary hardware.

When, I said go somewhere else I meant buy it off Ebay, or not buy it at all, or maybe just sell your Xbox.

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Geoff900 wrote:
Datel, don't have a leg to stand on, because allot of companies do this, Sony, Apple, Nintendo, Nokia etc they use their own connectors.

When? When has a product that works with these products then been made incompatible?


Meh, I hope Detal win even if nobody else does so the next Xbox has more third party stuff available, if Microsoft win then they'll probably engineer all their future consoles to only recognise official peripherals period, don't come crying on here when an extra controller costs you £50.


iTunes isn't compatible with 'ALL' MP3 players, batteries for laptops aren't compatible with each other for instance, mobile phones don't use universal connecters, even though the EU has said they must use a universal power cable connector as of next year, but that doesn't mean they can’t separate the charger, from the data cable.

Yes, companies do it all the time, nothing new.

You pay with your money, if you don't buy it then they will have to lower the prices, people are buying the official Hard Drives etc even at full prices, until they stop MS will keep charging.

Unlike, a open platform, like a PC the Xbox 360 is MS's console you have to be licensed to make hardware and software for the platform, infact if you make a game for the Xbox 360 under a publishing company, you have to pay MS money, to allow you to publish the game.

Like I say, IT IS MS's platform, unless people stop using their money to buy things which are overly expensive, MS will continue to do this, they are a business after all.


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 Post subject: Re: At last, Microsoft may have to stop ripping off its customer
PostPosted: 23 Dec 2009 - 1:13 pm 
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Canary Wundaboy wrote:
Can I just point out that most of the unofficial stuff STILL works? The only stuff MS has banned are the items that allow saving on a different device, specific example being the memory cards that allowed saving on a micro SD cards. The ones that don't allow this are still fine. MS have banned these specifically due to the security flaws they introduce into the system, for example what happened with the Gears 2 exploit a month ago.

Can't see anything wrong with what MS have done, they've taken reasonable steps to keep their service secure.


Key points in here :stupid:

They haven't banned everything, nor are they likely too IMHO. Of course they would rather see their own official stuff used but as CW said there are third party bits that work out there!

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 Post subject: Re: At last, Microsoft may have to stop ripping off its customer
PostPosted: 23 Dec 2009 - 4:50 pm 
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They still make money from 3rd party peripherals anyway i think - licencing fees or whatever.

From what I've read, they've only banned this particular 3rd party device as it's been used for hacking and it's not controllable.


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 Post subject: Re: At last, Microsoft may have to stop ripping off its customer
PostPosted: 24 Dec 2009 - 3:31 am 
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 Post subject: Re: At last, Microsoft may have to stop ripping off its customer
PostPosted: 30 Dec 2009 - 7:13 pm 
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I think what irritates me more is there unwillingness to compromise with regards to the BBC iPlayer - I actually see that as something of an advantage for the Wii and PS3, much like the Sky Player could be for MS. By all accounts the Faceache and Twiter apps are pretty crap really.

Would they not make more if they had these things for free, but Sky Player had an associated cost for non-Sky subscribers? Similar to that already available, just without needing Live basically

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 Post subject: Re: At last, Microsoft may have to stop ripping off its cust
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2010 - 12:35 am 
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Well 250Gb hard-drives for the old Xbox retail for about £50 now. :)


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